In this episode of A WINning Perspective: The WIN Canada Podcast, panel host Riccardo Cosentino is joined by co-host Shormila Chatterjee, Vice President at EY in the Infrastructure Advisory Practice, Ottawa. They sit down with three exceptional leaders in infrastructure: Sherena Hussain, Kitty Chan, and Julia Stefanishin. These trailblazers share their journeys in the male-dominated infrastructure industry, discussing how they've overcome challenges, seized opportunities, and made significant impacts in their respective fields. “And that is something that I'm actually quite opposed to that idea that we have to really make that strong sacrifice about like, well, I'm gonna put my career on the backburner knowing that I won't excel faster. Or maybe that C-suite is not something that's in the cards for me. And that is something that I find having these conversations and knowing that we're all informed as we, as Julia mentioned, we're getting older in our careers, but we have the insights now that we can really carve a path for those that are coming through the ranks behind us to make sure that they don't have to face those difficult situations on their own as well.” — Sherena Hussain
In this episode of A WINning Perspective: The WIN Canada Podcast, panel host Riccardo Cosentino is joined by co-host Shormila Chatterjee, Vice President at EY in the Infrastructure Advisory Practice, Ottawa. They sit down with three exceptional leaders in infrastructure: Sherena Hussain, Kitty Chan, and Julia Stefanishin. These trailblazers share their journeys in the male-dominated infrastructure industry, discussing how they've overcome challenges, seized opportunities, and made significant impacts in their respective fields.
“And that is something that I'm actually quite opposed to that idea that we have to really make that strong sacrifice about like, well, I'm gonna put my career on the backburner knowing that I won't excel faster. Or maybe that C-suite is not something that's in the cards for me. And that is something that I find having these conversations and knowing that we're all informed as we, as Julia mentioned, we're getting older in our careers, but we have the insights now that we can really carve a path for those that are coming through the ranks behind us to make sure that they don't have to face those difficult situations on their own as well.” — Sherena Hussain
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Riccardo Cosentino 0:05
You're listening to A WINning Perspective: The WIN Canada Podcast, which aims to highlight the challenges but also the wins of women in infrastructure. In each episode I, Riccardo Cosentino, will be sitting down with a panel of women in different areas and stages of their careers to ask how the industry can be better at inspiring women to choose a career in infrastructure and how we can support her while she's there. It's my hope that this conversation can elevate the voices that need to be heard and reach the people who still haven't listened. This podcast is proudly sponsored by Navigating Major Programmes and hosted by me, Riccardo Cosentino. Let's get into today's conversation.
Riccardo Cosentino 0:53
Hello, everyone, and welcome to a new episode of A WINning Perspective: The WIN Canada Podcast. I'm here today for the fifth episode of the series. And I'm joined by some phenomenal guests, some great infrastructure leaders, they happen to be women. And today I'm also joined by a co-host. So maybe if I can ask the guests to introduce themselves, and then maybe the co-host they can all introduce themselves. Why don't we start with you, Sherena?
Speaker 1 1:20
Thank you so much, Riccardo, I'm really excited to be here today. So my name is Sherena Hussain. I am a lawyer. I'm an academic as well as an advisor in the sustainable infrastructure space. I've been at this for quite a while in which I started my career in the context of renewable energy and doing quite a lot of things since then, including teaching, being able to advise both domestically but also abroad in the G7, G20. And now working at a startup helping to shape the course of the energy and the transportation transition known as FleetZero.
Riccardo Cosentino 1:20
Thank you for that. Maybe over to you, Kitty?
Kitty Chan 1:57
Sure. Hi, everyone. I'm Kitty Chan. I'm currently part of the rail delivery team at Infrastructure Ontario. For the last decade and a bit I've been working with Metrolinx on the procurement of rail projects. So both P3 and (inaudible) progressive. And my background is in civil engineering. Right from the beginning of my career, I've always known I wanted to be part of the infrastructure industry. And that's because that like being part of these large projects are both exciting and meaningful to me, knowing that I'm contributing to something that has a lasting social impact. So thanks for having me here.
Riccardo Cosentino 2:31
Thank you for joining us. And last but not least, Julia.
Julia Stefanishina 2:34
Thanks, Riccardo. And I'm so happy to be part of this podcast. And I was lucky to be on this specific panel. I think we have like absolutely amazing ladies here. My name is Julia Stefanishina. I'm currently a partner on Transaction Real Estate Team at EY. I started my path in infrastructure real estate more than two decades ago. And it's a little bit scary, since I don't believe I'm that old, but it is what it is. So I started at EY back in 2003, if you still remember those days, and I spent the first 10 years of my career doing deep dive in real estate and in that time, there was almost a Chinese wall between real estate and infrastructure, never crossed that, it's very distinct. And then situation changed, market has changed. And I spent the next decade, literally 10 years, in deep dive infrastructure doing high-speed rail, light rail, airports, port predevelopment. And that brought me to a space where, currently, I use both of these worlds together to advise my clients on a very complex real estate and infrastructure redevelopment or developments, like naming transit-oriented communities like our famous TLCs, redevelopment of waterfronts, new communities, new cities, strategic capital allocation, and real estate and infrastructure portfolios. So I'm so happy to see those lines got blurred within the last two decades. And I'm a big advocate for that. And I'm bringing this infrastructure, but also this sister-friendly lands from the real estate market. So thanks for having me here.
Riccardo Cosentino 4:21
Thank you all for that great introduction. And then now over to you Shormila. Maybe I think people know who you are but, just a reminder.
Shormila Chatterjee 4:30
I feel like I have to apologize now that I wheeled my way in here. But thank you, Riccardo, very much for the opportunity to co-host another episode with you. And also thank you to you and your team for supporting WIN. I think this has been such a nice legacy outside of just the awards we just came off of a couple of weeks ago. But to be able to continue to shine a bright spotlight on phenomenal previous nominees has been really special. So, thank you. And on a personal note, I actually got to meet Julia who also works at EY through this experience, so it's connecting people in more ways than one. I'll just very quickly say I'm a vice president at EY in the Ottawa practice and infrastructure advisory, and have worked on large-scale transit and transportation projects for the last almost 15 years.
Julia Stefanishina 5:15
Shormila, now we told everyone how large EY is so we don't actually need each other.
Shormila Chatterjee 5:21
That is true, but I'll blame it on being new maybe. And maybe just to kick off, you know, recognizing all of the introductions, I think a lot of people fall into infrastructure by accident, typically, maybe if we can delve a little bit into how did you get into this space and stay in this space going back a little bit further in your career? And if I may, Sherena, start with you.
Sherena Hussain 5:45
It's a great question. And when I stop and just reflect on it, I can't believe how I ended up into infrastructure. It was in my final year of undergraduate studies, in which case, there was one class I considered to be the bird class. And there was a guest speaker there, it was the then newly-minted Deputy Minister of Infrastructure in Ontario. And he was laying out how important infrastructure is for the province. And granted, this goes back well over a decade in terms of setting up new frameworks to build bridges, hospitals, roadways, as well as quality transit. And afterwards, we went for coffee. And he was telling me about a new program that was going to utilize private capital to do so known as public-private partnerships, although at the time, alternative financing and delivery. So he talked me into applying as a summer intern at Infrastructure Ontario, as it is known today. And that's where I got a chance to meet, I got to meet Riccardo there as well. But it started that trajectory towards digging in, seeing how important infrastructure is but how my skills can then be leveraged. And that will then translate into my practice of law, but also as an academic studying, how do we improve our delivery of infrastructure? How do we use capital? And then looking at how then to connect private capital, such as institutional investments to sustainable infrastructure around the world. And it's been a really phenomenal transition ever since that.
Shormila Chatterjee 7:07
Oh, wow, that's fascinating. And (inaudible), you've talked a little bit about your balance between kind of infrastructure and real estate. But how did that sort of first exposure come? Was it similar to Sherena's, in school or?
Julia Stefanishina 7:21
Well, I'm less structured and strategic than Sherena, for sure. So it was completely random. I should say that. And so my major was actually in supply chain and logistics. And having said that, 20 plus years back, no one knew what does it mean. So everything was so simplistic that it was I spent a year and a half working in supply chain, I was (inaudible) moving containers around the world. It was amazingly boring. It was just like, like, super boring. For me, back then, was all the caveats. And I was thinking that I should get out of that space. And I recall that as a student, I had an absolutely amazing, stunning, fantastic experience in a consulting department with (inaudible). So I thought that, wow, I should get back to (inaudible). It was such a fun place. Such an amazing people, very smart people around so I just applied to the core. And as in (inaudible), we have four departments, we have assurance, we have tax, we have transactions and consulting. And I saw that I know nothing about tax. I'm definitely not an accountant. So basically l am lack with transactions and consulting. So I was like, as a fresh grad, I was totally open to anything. And it was a pure coincidence that at that time, specifically company, Arthur Andersen, which doesn't exist anymore, was hiring for someone in real estate. And I happen to be one of those candidates. And I still remember my interview with back then Andersen partner, and then he became EY partners at EY acquired Andersen and he was asking very basic questions, being super polite, super nice. And he was asking questions like Julia, what types of real estate do you know? Do you know like any real estate indicators maybe like rental rates or net present value or internal rate of return? How do we assess the market and I was like, praying and I was shivering I kind of knew it's going nowhere. So I said, look, I don't know this space. I've never worked in this space. But if you tell me I can learn anything, I still don't know why did they hire me, but apparently I did something right and I got it on a team and immediately I got back to school to get my real estate appraiser license. And then I got my international real estate degree as a commercial certified investment member of CCIN, and then tons of other education and on-job training, but that was my almost like failing start of my career in real estate.
Shormila Chatterjee 10:02
Oh, wow. But that's a very interest, I mean, you took it to heart, right? You really did go do the work, which is incredible. And Kitty, you mentioned, a fellow civil engineer, so there's three of us here. So apologies to Julia and Sherena. Between Ricardo, Kitty and I, luckily, we're not the ones tasked with actually building much, which is good, but can you? How did you come into the infrastructure space?
Kitty Chan 10:23
So as I mentioned earlier, like I knew pretty early on that I wanted to be involved in infrastructure, but actually, it was on the architecture side. (okay) So, I was exploring that, along with engineering. In the end, I actually picked engineering, just because of the different things that engineers can do. So I was drawn more to that. And so I was fortunate, I was part of a Co-Op program. So during my undergraduate, I had several placements that allowed me to kind of sample different job opportunities. So that was interesting, gave me a lot of perspectives before I actually had to apply. And so straight out of school, I ended up working for SNC-Lavalin, designing roads, and freeways. And so that was pretty rewarding. And after a few years, I decided, okay, I want more, I want to understand more about infrastructure, like different asset classes. And so after speaking to a close friend, he actually introduced me to Infrastructure Ontario. And so I joined IO a decade and a bit ago, and I've never looked back. Every day has been new and exciting, often filled with challenges, but that's actually why I love it so much. And the people that I've met, over the years over different projects have been, like, fascinating, and I've learned a lot from them. And that's why I started in infrastructure, and I will continue to be in infrastructure. Over the different projects, like I've also gotten to know different sides of the business. So like technical procurement. So I've continued to grow professionally as well.
Shormila Chatterjee 11:53
And just touching on challenges a little because we are, you know, as Riccardo put it, you three are leaders but happen to be women, but maybe just picking on that, have you noticed challenges? This is a male-dominated industry, I think, you know, all three of you have over a decade under your belt. How have you seen that evolve over your career? And can you, if I may, just keep the thread with you going?
Kitty Chan 12:18
Yeah, so I don't know if it's necessarily like maybe a male-dominated trait, but I myself is sometimes can be quiet and reserved. So reflecting on that, I know, when I was early in my career, I was very soft-spoken. And so, over the years, I've found the courage to actually speak up at different tables and voice my views and raise issues. So that to me has been what I've been working on and continue to work on, depending on the scenario that I'm into.
Shormila Chatterjee 12:47
And Julia, what about how have you found that dynamic evolve over your career?
Julia Stefanishina 12:52
You know, what? It's a very interesting question. And I don't think I know the answer. Since I, throughout my career, I had such, I was blessed to have such a diverse experiences. I worked in different geographies. I worked in different companies. I worked in very different teams in like real estate and infrastructure market, if we choose to set them separately, right? So what I would say that, I definitely would say that the market is trending to the right direction. So I don't think diversity is just about the gender, it's about the age, the cultural background. So I love when we see very diverse teams are delivering on a project and coming together to come up with a solution. That's how you get all the different perspectives together. And the chances that you come up with something that is resilient, up to the point, really innovative, is way higher. So I do think as, I don't know, as an industry as a nation as like, globally, we are doing way better than we used to 20 years back, but then I would say it's so fractional, and it's so dependent on your specific team and people around you on a specific day in a specific place. (Inaudible) Throughout my career, I had very different experiences. I felt the most rewarded person in the room and the most, like, I felt super comfortable, not threatened and very welcomed. And I was yelled at and I was always diminished. And I was asked to like bring coffee for the whole cohort as being the most senior person in a room it, like, I saw all of these dimensions, and I don't think it speaks for the industry or for people what people are trying to achieve. I think it's literally like you're seeing fractions of what's happening in different places as you go through. But summarizing that to higher level, I do think that we're doing better. I'm very excited to see what the next decade is going to bring us.
Shormila Chatterjee 15:08
And, Sherena, if I may ask you, as a similar but maybe specific to your perspective of have you, has there been a difference in the academic space versus the more practical space in terms of being, you know, a woman in leadership in this space or?
Sherena Hussain 15:26
Well, absolutely. And a lot of the comments that I've made so far are very reflective of my experiences as well. But even to this day, I am still, in many cases, the only woman in the room, whether we're talking about academic conferences, or if it's about looking at some of the investment strategies that are being (inaudible), or even right now, I'm here in California, just got back from the Bay Area, in which case, there were no women bathrooms, in fact, they were used for drug testing. So it's still a situation whereby we have a long way to go. But that's not necessarily to say that women don't have a place in infrastructure. If anything, I'm very fortunate to be on this podcast with a lot of trailblazers, because rather than saying it's challenging, and we should otherwise stay in a lane, it's more so about what we see the bigger picture, we have skills, we have a voice, we can make a seat at the table. Let's do it. And that's where I see the industry going. And a lot of great individuals, but also organizations turn their attention to the fact that wait a minute, maybe there should be a women's bathroom when there are field visits, for example, like it's something as simple as that. But it does have a profound impact in how the industry may appear for someone who's just starting out. But that being said, compared to about 15 years ago, when I started out, we've come a long way. In which case it isn't necessarily assume that I'm the one who's the note taker, but rather, it's the notion that's okay, well, you're here and you have a lot of expertise behind you, we will need to listen to you and help us too, as opposed to back in the day going to Julia's point, are you the one bringing in the coffee or speaking to a male colleague who's in fact, the designated note taker on our team, but it's just assumed that individual will be the one who is leading those conversations. So I'm optimistic in that regard. But there are some rooms for improvement, I think we're beginning to shine light on that, more so than when I started my career.
Kitty Chan 17:17
Sherena, you just reminded me about like, fantastic experience where a cane was my team on a construction site. And that was a huge mining project. And I caused the full panic there, since there was no female uniform on a site. And they couldn't allow me to go on a construction site not wearing uniform. And there was no not a single unit that they could give me. So we basically wasted one day, when they were trying to figure out that issue. And finally they found one, then as per health and safety instructions, they should have certain like, certain pieces and (inaudible). So there was one so it was like a (inaudible), I could actually go there and inspect. But we lost one day. And also I just wanted to comment on what you've just said that and as you were speaking, I was reflecting on my comments as well, like we see the progress, but maybe it's also a factor of me or us getting a little bit older. Since your contribution to the team, your role on a team also changes as you learn and as you progress in your career. So from one perspective, it's unfortunate we're getting older, from another perspective, hopefully, we're getting wiser and more experienced in what we do. So it's by far helping to have a more meaningful role and to overcome certain barriers.
Sherena Hussain 18:47
Yeah, I just want to take on to Julia's last comment. I think definitely as we progress in our roles, like maybe others' assumptions of us change. But I also need to sometimes check myself when I make assumptions of others. And so when we do have need note-takers, like maybe that's something that like gets rotated. So everybody actually has a chance to take notes. And so it's probably a more equitable way to distribute tasks. So that's probably a suggestion.
Riccardo Cosentino 19:16
Well, thank God, we now have AI that is going to take notes for all of us.
Julia Stefanishina 19:20
And Riccardo, it's going to take not only notes, but it's going to replace more than let's not open that Pandora box with (inaudible).
Shormila Chatterjee 19:29
And just in terms of longevity of career, Julia, I think that was helpful. You know, we talked in a few of our previous episodes, actually, about this theme of what's called the end of a leaky pipeline, we're seeing more women come in, but there is something that happened, you know, maybe the long how long these projects take and you know, a bit of a grind for you know, five plus years or you know, these large sort of investment portfolios are very challenging from a you know, time commitment perspective that maybe it's not the intake piece that's the problem. But is there something in the middle that we can do better to keep women and so they can actually get to a leadership position? And I just wanted to hear your thoughts. I don't know Sherena, if we can start with you?
Sherena Hussain 20:16
Well, I've really struggled with this because often my answer varies depending on the day. And it does reflect the fact that there are different scenarios, different niches within the infrastructure industry, where some strategies are effective, and others like are still to be developed. I've seen instances whereby those who are rising to the ranks to have the compassion, the insights, and the foresight to be able to recognize that programs such as returning to work is very fundamental to know that just because someone were to take some time off, whether it's a maternity leave or for whatever reason that their role and contribution to that project does not terminate for that reason, they can return and come back onto those projects. And that's where I've seen that being somewhat successful in those longer-term projects. But for those that are within like the two to five year, no turnover, it's really just the opportunity to create like portfolio, so multiple projects so that you get the benefit of experience across different stages of a project, in which case, being able to continue to build your expertise and not feel as though that you've hit a plateau because you've either been away too long, or the balances that come with managing at all is something that you might have to think about stepping back. And that is something that I'm actually quite opposed to that idea that we have to really make that strong sacrifice about like, well, I'm gonna put my career on backburner knowing that I won't excel faster. Or maybe that C-suite is not something that's in the cards for me. And that is something that I find, having these conversations and knowing that we're all informed as we, as Julia mentioned, we're getting older in our careers, but we have the insights now that we can really carve a path for those that are coming through the ranks behind us to make sure that they don't have to face those difficult situations on their own as well.
Shormila Chatterjee 22:00
And Julia, as a mother of twins, was it, right? What kind of experience and what's your thoughts on, you know, what Sherena just said? totally
Julia Stefanishina 22:07
It totally makes sense. And, again, I'm trying my best to give back to the professional community since I was blessed with fantastic coaches and supporters along the way. It's never like a one-person show or (inaudible). It's always like a bunch of people who are helping you along the way. And definitely, this is critical and very important. Sometimes, we're all lacking that. And like, it's an art to find the mentor for yourself and coach for yourself. But I had experience living in different jurisdictions. And I think I was really lucky that when my kids were in daycare age, like preschool, I lived in a jurisdiction where you could easily afford, from a financial perspective, a nanny and a housekeeper and like supports for that types. And I basically, I had twins and they were six months old, I was fully back to work 100%. And partially it speaks to my probably damaged brain in like how I love this space, like that's another story. But partially, it demonstrates that if you want the environment that you can create, and it doesn't cost a fortune, and you don't need to have like a huge financial support just to afford that. And that helped me a lot since that's how I could continue my professional path. And when I came over to Canada, I was again lucky since my kids were at school age, and it's way cheaper and easier as well (inaudible) like, it's still house like no, I'm enjoying teenagers don't ask me about my experience these days like you. So it's never easy, but I think if we think broadly, just outside of professional network, there are other things from a social support financial support that actually can unlock this potential for many.
Shormila Chatterjee 24:11
And it is true. I mean, for those of us who worked in emerging markets, it is a very different support system that comes available for very different economic kind of makeup. So that I mean, that's a really valid point. Kitty, you're, you know, have (inaudible) now. How are you seeing looking on either side of you when is the makeup of women in that kind of middle management going to change?
Kitty Chan 24:36
Yeah, I was hoping Julia would give me some hope because I'm about to enter into the teenage phase as well with my kids. So no hope key team and just be brave and embrace it. Yes, words of encouragement. But I think looking back, I also was fortunate to have mentors, naturally through as I went through the various positions and what I think is that to help guide the middle band going through it, like I think we need more female mentors, because some of the issues that we've talked about now, like, they're unique, but everybody, like, like, females will go through it. So it would be good for more female mentorship so that they can also lead the next generation of female leaders through some of these challenges that we've already experienced. So I think that would be a (inaudible).
Julia Stefanishina 25:30
Kitty, just to build up on that, I think that's like, and I'm really very happy that we have in this conversation at a podcast, because feeling is one thing but showing vulnerability and showing to other sisters like other females, that you're not alone, it's okay to feel like that it's okay to have those issues. Like there are different ways how you can overcome them. Shereena to your point, depending on a specific situation, depending on a specific type and point in your career. That to me is very encouraging when I see those examples, and it gives you, and Kitty, to your point, like a hope, like oh, you can actually live through that, it's going to be well.
Sherena Hussain 26:13
Yeah, somebody to turn to, right. Like if you experience a challenge, or you just need to talk things through.
Shormila Chatterjee 26:20
And that's why I feel like even that term work-life balance gives me the chills, like I think we're evolving away from that, that it's just more kind of an integration, it's more of a, you know, how to make different facets of our life work, but to make everything work equally all the time, but just maybe not the right model that we should be aspiring too, you know,
Sherena Hussain 26:42
It is, especially now that we have the benefit of most workplaces allowing remote work, it has changed that definition of whatever that balance might be, and depending upon internally, what that means for your particular situation. So that's where I'm actually quite hopeful when it comes to that perspective. But again, to Kitty's point, is having the benefit of even a sounding board or a group of individuals that you can speak to and say, I'm in this situation, what did you do? Or how do you think I can navigate it? It goes a long way so you don't feel isolated. But at the same time, having that flexibility built into some of your roles, as with hybrid workforces means that you might be able to feel less pressure than, prior to COVID whereby that was my predominantly the expectation is that you would be in the office five days a week. And that struggle really hits home consistently for a lot of women, myself included.
Shormila Chatterjee 27:36
Maybe the shameless plug here is around WIN, like a network this and how have you found and I think all three of you have talked about the importance of mentorship. I am curious has it been, have you turned to other women as mentors, and has it been a mix of both, have you found, you know, different perspectives depending on who has mentored you? I don't know who wants to take that.
Julia Stefanishina 27:54
I can take that, Shormila, and just kick it off. I was thinking about that recently, funnily enough. And I was very lucky that for the first decade, my mentor and my direct boss and like my partner whom I reported to was a female. And she wasn't very strong female who basically sacrificed all her personal life, everything, to work. He was, and he is, extremely successful, absolutely fearless, and like super well-known and a factor. And I saw her growing up, I saw her like progressing from manager to the other senior partner in the organization, as a professional as a mentor, as a leader. And I learned a lot from her. So I had that like benefit of seeing a very strong female role model. But interestingly enough, most of my coaches and informal mentors were always men. And so I think that was kind of a blessing. I never planned it like that. It just happened. But looking back, I had a very balanced model, like both sides, and they think this is what we should be aware of. And I really love when we have those kinds of WIN event or any other, like, I'm hosting this week at EY (inaudible) women book club event, but we're very welcoming men. So we shouldn't be isolating, if we talk about diversity, if we talk about the benefits of diverse backgrounds, we should embrace and welcome everyone. And that's what brings value to female leadership as well.
Sherena Hussain 29:30
I'll chime in here my experience kind of similar to Julia's. Most of my mentors were men, and they gave me their perspective. Like I saw things through their eyes. So it gave me perspective and it actually shaped the way I think and the opportunities I pursued as well, so I definitely don't think it's a bad thing. And when I realized that, I started to seek out women, to ask them for advice and mentorship, to kind of supplement the other coaching that I was given, just so that I would even have a more balanced perspective,
Shormila Chatterjee 30:18
And what about you, Sherena?
Sherena Hussain 30:20
Similar. When I think about the majority of my mentors and coaches, they have been men. And it was only a few months ago that one of my female mentors told me about the concept of a personal accountability board. So try to take the concept of your career and being able to then treat your mentors and coaches as if they're your board of directors, in the sense of giving you strategic advice, but also going back to them with a sense of this is what I'm hoping to achieve. And then their ability to hold you accountable in the sense of, well, how much progress have you made in the past six months since we last had coffee? (Inaudible) like that, perhaps is because we're lawyers, and we think like that, but it's all it was a really great concept because (inaudible) yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be identified as being a woman or a man, but rather the notion of individuals that can help guide you. But also you can create a real long-term relationship with and strategically help you through your career and a lot of the hiccups that come along the way. So I've, I've really embraced that concept, in terms of like how I have a board and who's reporting to, I'm reporting to that board, but also for some of my former students, so, many of the female students who, particularly in the master's programs that I teach at, they really know nothing about infrastructure and tell us how they take the first course with me. And other than just keeping in the classroom, I particularly at the annual CTP3 conference, WIN has their annual breakfast, I will take all my female students, as well as any interested male students and take them to specifically that breakfast. And I can't tell you how profound an impact that makes for them. Because one, they see that, oh, this isn't just like a male-dominated industry, like I'm able to meet a lot of inspiring, amazing women, but also you're building your network, it's not just what's in a textbook, it could be so much more. So I think there's a lot of us having our mentors, but also relaying that back and passing that forward that has created a bit of an ecosystem, including through WIN to create that change and make it a far more inclusive industry than when we started out.
Kitty Chan 32:26
As a part of an observation, which I further condensed into kind of advice and mentorship. I got a question a couple of years back, I was in a conversation with my mentee. And we were talking that okay, she has great counselor, etc. But she needs to find like a sponsor or a mentor within the organization, which is a little bit different role. We were talking about that. And then she asked me a very interesting question. She said, look but those people who are really influential, who are really in power, I don't necessarily click with them, I don't necessarily see myself finding the natural way to, to approach them and spend time with them. And we started thinking, what we can do about it. And I was looking back at my experience, I talked to some of the friends of mine, and checked what they did. And apparently, we all naturally would never necessarily thought about it. But we all naturally went with a model that okay, regardless of your decision-making power currently, regardless of your seniority, I should be hanging out with a person whom I really like and I'm inspired about and where we have this natural (inaudible), because we are all different and some people will go together easier, some people won't, it's totally fine. And that was kind of an advice, which like when we met with her, I said look like forget about that. Forget about seniority, forget about how quickly they can push you forward. Just think of someone who you really admire and whom you really respect and want to learn from. And that was like, an eye-opener. So I do say that so many times in our careers was think about what's the shortest path or critical path. We're all in infrastructure planning. But it's less about that when you think about your career. It's not a sprint, it's a long way and just embrace this opportunity and learn from people whom you really believe in and whom you want to be like, and then it's going to be successful anyway maybe in a different way that you envision, but it's going to be very beneficial for all parties.
Sherena Hussain 34:44
And they could be different people in different phases of your life and career. Right? Like when I say, I mean, I use life and career because I truly believe like they kind of go hand in hand.
Riccardo Cosentino 34:55
This is a great conversation. I think we're coming into time for today's podcast. But before we wrap up, I'd like to close and ask each one of you, including you, Shormila, as a co-host, I want to put you back in the guest's seat, which is for the next five minutes, what is the project that you remember were most fondest? What is being your favorite, your favorite achievement in infrastructure, I like to end with a positive note. And so focusing on the successes and achievements rather than, rather than the challenges, I mean, it's good to talk about the challenges. But let's end up on a positive note. Since I can see the old thinking system flowing this cold, I'm just gonna let somebody pick this up, whoever is ready.
Sherena Hussain 35:40
That's a tough question, Riccardo, I think I'll just start us off. In terms of a larger mega project, if I can call it that. I was involved in a public private partnership for a transit garage here in Canada. And it was a challenging one, because there are a lot of moving parts from so many different stakeholders to be consulted. So like the actual procurement model was a challenge, let alone actually implementing and taking it board. But having been able to visit the job sites regularly, once we got to the construction stage, and visiting after it's already been commissioned, give a sense of like an accomplishment. It's like that was probably one of the most challenging projects from a stakeholder perspective and being able to see that and whenever I'm driving around, and perhaps or somebody in the passenger seat, I will point out, I was able to work on this project, I was able to work on that project. And I don't know if I'm bragging, but there was just so much pride that comes with being able to support even in a micro way, the delivery of these core infrastructure projects around here in Canada.
Kitty Chan 36:42
Yeah, my answer is similar to Sherena's. Like, I don't have a favorite project, per se, but I actually have favorite moments on (inaudible). And they typically revolve around working with, like great people, great teams. And you can kind of tell like, there's always a moment where the team kind of just clicks, and then things just become a lot smoother. So those are my best memories on past projects. And usually, at the end of the project, or rather, the face of the project. Hitting commercial close is definitely a highlight where everybody has kind of like a sigh of relief for maybe a day or two. So that's always been the highlight on my projects, where I use that time to actually reflect like all the difficult moments we've had and all the successes that we've had, so that we can carry them forward into the next phase of the project.
Julia Stefanishina 37:30
Riccardo, I'm still thinking since there was a conflict in your question, the most memorable project and the projects you're proud of. Typically, these are two separate things. So in order to like what one of the partners on one day told me that to become a really good consultant, you need 20 Really great projects and two absolutely disastrous projects. So I had all of them. And I won't talk about the most vulnerable ones. That's going to be another podcast, I think, we need more time for that. But the projects that I really love, and there are many of them, these are the projects where I, as a consultant, have an absolutely unique opportunity to implement and see it becoming real because very often we are cut off at a certain stage. And then the team steps in and delivers the whole thing. And I'm always like jumping like, like, like a small dog behind the fancy, I know, I can help, I can help you. So there were a couple of projects recently where we started with a feasibility study in a business case. And then we help clients to think through the full operating model, and full processes and governance frameworks to enable the execution and help to set up a PMO and help to make sure that all controls are in place. And basically you're living through the whole lifecycle, seeing from the concept becoming more and more real taking it through market consultations, taking it through the procurement stage, taking it to execution stage. So these are my favorite one where you can like and maybe this is the same feeling, Shormila, now that you mentioned our fulfillment, where you can see that you actually help and do something really tangible and useful, then that's what brings joy to our very dark and stressful consultants life.
Shormila Chatterjee 39:32
Maybe I'll just, similar not need to mention really a project. But to me, I've had the, I guess, fortune or misfortune of losing a few with a group of people, which has really bound you in experience, you know, and then losing opportunities and then, you know, moving into something that then ended up being successful, but I think that those sort of being in the trenches together with people in these projects can get very, like you said Kitty, earlier, stressful and dynamic, but being able to go through all of that together. And I think, you know, we all recognize, especially in Canada Infrastructure is such a small space, like the, you know, two degrees of separation, even on this podcast is pretty incredible. So the fact that we're a very kind of small cohort in Canada, doing amazing things is pretty phenomenal that resoundingly, I get reminded often of how, you know how connected we are as an industry here, which is pretty incredible.
Riccardo Cosentino 40:35
Well, thank you for that. Thank you for joining us today on the podcast. It has been an honor of mine to have Sherena, Julia and Kitty as guests and it is especially proud to have Shormila as my co-host, (inaudible) and I think that's the degree of separation, as many people know, Shormila and I work together. And despite that, she still wants to do podcasts with me. So I'm glad. And yeah, thank you very much. And I hope that this podcast helps other women that are coming through the industry. I hope that your experiences are going to be significant and an important starting point to the new generation of women. So thank you again, and please listen and subscribe and stay tuned for upcoming events at WIN Canada.
Shormila Chatterjee 41:19
Perfect. Thank you, everybody.
Riccardo Cosentino 41:20
Bye now.
Riccardo Cosentino 41:25
That wraps up today's episode of A WINning Perspective: the WIN Canada Podcast. I hope you found this episode's conversation as compelling and inspiring as I did. If so, please consider subscribing and leaving a review. This podcast is proudly sponsored by Navigating Major Programmes, the podcast that aims at elevating the conversation surrounding major programmes. Thank you for tuning in to A WINning Perspective: the WIN Canada Podcast. Let's stay connected and keep the momentum going to empower women and engineer change.